[Freedos-user] How do you transfer files to your FreeDOS machine

[Mateusz Viste]

Hello,

That's a question to those of you who happen to still keep an oldish
hardware machine dedicated to DOS tasks...

How do you transfer files between your main computer and your
FreeDOS-powered machine ?

Myself, I haven't found any really creative solution so far, and rely on
one of these:
- using the DOS port of SCP (this works both ways, but not very
user-friendly)
- putting files on my gopher server, and fetching them from my DOS PC
using a gopher client (works only if I need to copy files TO the DOS
workstation, but not the other way around)

Obviously, both solutions are quite annoying. Best would be to have some
kind of file manager similar to Norton Commander that would allow
accessing a remote network drive from DOS...

Just wondering how others do.

Back in old days I was using the LapLink application. It was primarily
targeted to serial/parallel file transfers, but IIRC since v5.00 network
transfers were supported, too. Anyway, it's not really an option
anymore, since it needs a LapLink program running on both sides, so it
would still be a nice (although non-free) solution for DOS -> DOS
transfers, but not if your 'real' workstation is running Linux or
FreeBSD (or Windows, but hopefully nobody uses that anymore) ;)

Mateusz

[Zbigniew]

Post by Mateusz Viste
Hello,
That's a question to those of you who happen to still keep an oldish
hardware machine dedicated to DOS tasks...
How do you transfer files between your main computer and your
FreeDOS-powered machine ?

On floppies :) or CD-s.

You can also try this way:
https://wiki.samba.org/index.php/Setup_FreeDOS_to_access_a_Samba_share

Didn't try it yet by myself - but I believe, they tested the solution
before publishing.

[Matej Horvat]

Post by Mateusz Viste
That's a question to those of you who happen to still keep an oldish
hardware machine dedicated to DOS tasks...

I usually don't (I triple-boot between FreeDOS, Haiku, and Windows on my
main PC), but when I do transfer files between a DOS and non-DOS computer,
I use one of the following:

1. Serial cable and Zmodem at 115200 bits per second. This is only good
for small transfers though, usually I have to compress things first.

2. If the DOS computer (usually a laptop) booted DOS from a USB device,
unplug it, connect it to the other computer, transfer files, and connect
it to the DOS computer again to the same port. A DIR command should then
show the changed directory. Sometimes a reboot is needed though.

3. Temporarily run mTCP FTPSERV on the DOS computer. Configure an FTP user
so that it gives you access to all drives. Then use an FTP client on the
other computer.

[Michael B. Brutman]

mTCP provides three options:

- an FTP client for DOS. Not "point and click" user friendly, but it
does what it is supposed to do.
- HTGET for downloading a file from an HTTP server
- an FTP server for DOS. This allows you to use a graphical FTP client
on another machine.

For when I want real drive letter access I use MS LANMAN.


Mike

[Dale E Sterner]

Usb and flash chips work well on DOS. Load your files on a flash chip.
A little work in moving the chip around but should work unless you don't
have usb.

cheers
DS

Post by Mateusz Viste
Hello,
That's a question to those of you who happen to still keep an oldish
hardware machine dedicated to DOS tasks...
How do you transfer files between your main computer and your
FreeDOS-powered machine ?
Myself, I haven't found any really creative solution so far, and
rely on
- using the DOS port of SCP (this works both ways, but not very
user-friendly)
- putting files on my gopher server, and fetching them from my DOS
PC
using a gopher client (works only if I need to copy files TO the DOS
workstation, but not the other way around)
Obviously, both solutions are quite annoying. Best would be to have
some
kind of file manager similar to Norton Commander that would allow
accessing a remote network drive from DOS...
Just wondering how others do.
Back in old days I was using the LapLink application. It was
primarily
targeted to serial/parallel file transfers, but IIRC since v5.00
network
transfers were supported, too. Anyway, it's not really an option
anymore, since it needs a LapLink program running on both sides, so
it
would still be a nice (although non-free) solution for DOS -> DOS
transfers, but not if your 'real' workstation is running Linux or
FreeBSD (or Windows, but hopefully nobody uses that anymore) ;)
Mateusz

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Post by Mateusz Viste
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[Alain Mouette]

There are also CompactFlash Adapters for XTs, it may be a convinient
option for old hard drives that rarely work.

A friend of mine is making those boards ;-)

Alain

Post by Dale E Sterner
Usb and flash chips work well on DOS. Load your files on a flash chip.
A little work in moving the chip around but should work unless you don't
have usb.
cheers
DS

Post by Mateusz Viste
Hello,
That's a question to those of you who happen to still keep an oldish
hardware machine dedicated to DOS tasks...
How do you transfer files between your main computer and your
FreeDOS-powered machine ?
Myself, I haven't found any really creative solution so far, and
rely on
- using the DOS port of SCP (this works both ways, but not very
user-friendly)
- putting files on my gopher server, and fetching them from my DOS
PC
using a gopher client (works only if I need to copy files TO the DOS
workstation, but not the other way around)
Obviously, both solutions are quite annoying. Best would be to have
some
kind of file manager similar to Norton Commander that would allow
accessing a remote network drive from DOS...
Just wondering how others do.
Back in old days I was using the LapLink application. It was
primarily
targeted to serial/parallel file transfers, but IIRC since v5.00
network
transfers were supported, too. Anyway, it's not really an option
anymore, since it needs a LapLink program running on both sides, so
it
would still be a nice (although non-free) solution for DOS -> DOS
transfers, but not if your 'real' workstation is running Linux or
FreeBSD (or Windows, but hopefully nobody uses that anymore) ;)
Mateusz

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----

Post by Mateusz Viste
Want fast and easy access to all the code in your enterprise? Index
and
search up to 200,000 lines of code with a free copy of Black Duck
Code Sight - the same software that powers the world's largest code
search on Ohloh, the Black Duck Open Hub! Try it now.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/bds
_______________________________________________
Freedos-user mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
____________________________________________________________
Insurance Agents Outraged
2014 - If you drive 50 mi/day or less you better read this...
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3165/53dba3981743423980625mp04duc

******************************************************>>>>

[dmccunney]

In my case, the FreeDOS box is an ancient notebook that multi-boots
Win2K Pro, a couple of flavors of Linux, and FreeDOS.

Getting stuff on the FreeDOS slice is a copy and paste from Win2K or Linux.
______
Dennis
https://plus.google.com/u/0/105128793974319004519

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

Post by Mateusz Viste
That's a question to those of you who happen to still keep an oldish
hardware machine dedicated to DOS tasks...
How do you transfer files between your main computer and your
FreeDOS-powered machine ?

For my P166, I used to just use a floppy (sneakernet?) to store
things, but eventually I gave up on that machine (overall hardware
failures).

Post by Mateusz Viste
Myself, I haven't found any really creative solution so far, and rely on
- using the DOS port of SCP (this works both ways, but not very
user-friendly)
- putting files on my gopher server, and fetching them from my DOS PC
using a gopher client (works only if I need to copy files TO the DOS
workstation, but not the other way around)
Obviously, both solutions are quite annoying. Best would be to have some
kind of file manager similar to Norton Commander that would allow
accessing a remote network drive from DOS...

I admit to being a noob regarding null modem cables and whatnot, so
I've never tried that. However, I think software like File Maven was
able to support such things properly in DOS:

https://www.briggsoft.com/fmdos.htm

Also, it's been a few years, and again, I'm a noob at networking
overall, so I relied on my brother to setup an FTP server on the main
PC where I would often connect and grab files via that. (Not a DOS
machine, but it was my old 32-bit Vista laptop with NTVDM, close
enough.) So I ended up using NDN (Necromancer's DOS Navigator) with
its "#:" drive or whatever.

Post by Mateusz Viste
Just wondering how others do.
Back in old days I was using the LapLink application. It was primarily
targeted to serial/parallel file transfers, but IIRC since v5.00 network
transfers were supported, too. Anyway, it's not really an option
anymore, since it needs a LapLink program running on both sides, so it
would still be a nice (although non-free) solution for DOS -> DOS
transfers, but not if your 'real' workstation is running Linux or
FreeBSD (or Windows, but hopefully nobody uses that anymore) ;)

Dunno, there's probably lots of ways to accomplish it. Admittedly, it
is easier to "just use modern" (and dual boot or copy to USB, as
others already mentioned).

[Ulrich]

Post by Mateusz Viste
That's a question to those of you who happen to still keep an oldish
hardware machine dedicated to DOS tasks...
How do you transfer files between your main computer and your
FreeDOS-powered machine ?
Myself, I haven't found any really creative solution so far, and rely on
- using the DOS port of SCP (this works both ways, but not very
user-friendly)
- putting files on my gopher server, and fetching them from my DOS PC
using a gopher client (works only if I need to copy files TO the DOS
workstation, but not the other way around)

This is always a good question. :-)

My "oldish machine" is a Compaq Contura Aero from 1994. When it wasn't quite so oldish I used to transfer files over the LPT parallel port with a software called "winlink". (Despite of its name there was a Windows 3.1 AND a DOS version of it.) It's comparable to laplink or filemaven. (Who created these names by the way? ;-).)

It came also with a 3,5" floppy drive connected over a PCMCIA adapter (which doesn't work on other computers PCMCIA slots).

Now floppies and LPT parallel ports are history.

In the end, the 16bit PCMCIA slot of the Contura Aero turned out to be the best way to connect to modern machines. There are still 16bit PCMCIA network cards available. My favorite is the D-Link DFE-670TXD, which comes with a packet driver for DOS.

So that means networking. And of course this opens a lot of ways to exchange files, even for FreeDOS :-)

For me, the most exotic ways was IPXCOPY. See:

http://sourceforge.net/p/freedos/mailman/message/25743826/

Normally I set up a DOS FTP server and then make a connection with a FTP client on my main computer (which is a mac BTW). First I used some freeware called EZNOS2, but it didn't work reliable for me. Then I found a company called Datalight, who are still distributing their ftpd program for non-commercial use. For details see:

http://sourceforge.net/p/freedos/mailman/message/20246025/

FreeDOS now comes with the FTP server from Michael B. Brutmans mTCP apps, which is robust, reliable and Free Software. So this is the way to go for me, whenever I like to startup FreeDOS and exchange files. (Although I do this in a virtual machine most of the time and leave the Compaq Contura Aero in the basement... ;-))

kind regards
Uli

[John R. Sowden]

I guess I'll jump into this ...

We have a DOS network (Little Big LAN - excellent) which connects our
DOS computers. One of the nodes is a computer in my office running DOS
and Linux (Ubuntu). Normally this computer is booting into the DOS
partition. We have backup routines (batch files) that backup data only
(full backup, not incremental) to the DOS Linux computer. I then boot
this computer into Linux occasionally to move these backup files to a
DVD-RAM disk on this computer. Of course the data is encrypted when it
is move from the DOS FAT32 partition to the DVD-RAM disk.

If I want to move this data to the Linux (Ubuntu) only box in my office,
I use the DVD-RAM media to copy it to my Linux box.

John

[Mateusz Viste]

Hi all,

Thank you all for your replies! I was assuming network transfers only,
as this seems the only proper way, and I've been surprised how many of
us still use non-networked file transfers methods :)

Here below I list all methods that have been mentioned, along with a
short comment on each.

* Floppies/CD (Zbigniew, Rugxulo)
- really slow. floppies are hard to get nowadays. Burning a CD every
time I need to transfer a few KiBs of files seems wasteful.

* Double boot - either to copy files from one partition to another, or
move data using 'modern' means (Matej, Dennis, John)
- rebooting into another OS just to copy some files can be a pain..

* Booting from USB as a mean of accessing USB flash drives (Matej, Dale)
- as above, requires a reboot to exchange files. plus, not every PC
have USB. and these that have it, don't necessarily know how to boot
from it.

* Running a mTCP FTP server on the DOS machine (Matej, Michael, Ulrich)
- this is nice, although I'd prefer keeping the DOS PC as a simple
'client'.

* Running a FTP server on remote server, and connecting from DOS via a
FTP client (Michael, Rugxulo)
- this is definitely my preferred way so far. And it would be perfect
if there was a nice FTP client for DOS. There are a few CLI FTP clients
already, but using FTP over CLI is not very convenient. A NC-style FTP
tool would be awesome. I didn't know about Necromancer DOS Navigator's
ability to access FTP drives (mostly because I was using an older
version of NDN without this feature) - this looks like the perfect tool.
Unfortunately it looks like NDN doesn't like my networking
environnement. It's able to connect to my FTP server one time out of 20,
and then the connectivity goes down after few seconds anyway. I will
have to check this out. Not sure how its TCP/IP stack ("SabreTooth") is
supposed to be configurable..

* Using a CF->IDE adapter (Alain)
- Requires a reboot (or even worse - a halt/change CF/start operation).

* Using parallel transfers via winlink (Ulrich)
- this sounds nice, but as far as I understand it requires a Win3.x
OS on the "host" computer. And a parallel interface (which I don't have
on my laptop).


Finally, the FTP method looks like the fastest/most convenient one.
Setting up a FTP server on a remote host is easy. Only problem is to
have a humanly convenient way to use FTP from within FreeDOS. The latest
version (2010) of NDN looks very promising, and it's the only DOS FTP
client known to me that presents a user-friendly interface.
Unfortunately it's either buggy or incompatible with something I have,
or I don't know how to configure its exotic (FreePascal?) networking
stack. But definitely worth some investigations!

thanks,
Mateusz

Post by Mateusz Viste
Hello,
That's a question to those of you who happen to still keep an oldish
hardware machine dedicated to DOS tasks...
How do you transfer files between your main computer and your
FreeDOS-powered machine ?
Myself, I haven't found any really creative solution so far, and rely on
- using the DOS port of SCP (this works both ways, but not very
user-friendly)
- putting files on my gopher server, and fetching them from my DOS PC
using a gopher client (works only if I need to copy files TO the DOS
workstation, but not the other way around)
Obviously, both solutions are quite annoying. Best would be to have some
kind of file manager similar to Norton Commander that would allow
accessing a remote network drive from DOS...
Just wondering how others do.
Back in old days I was using the LapLink application. It was primarily
targeted to serial/parallel file transfers, but IIRC since v5.00 network
transfers were supported, too. Anyway, it's not really an option
anymore, since it needs a LapLink program running on both sides, so it
would still be a nice (although non-free) solution for DOS -> DOS
transfers, but not if your 'real' workstation is running Linux or
FreeBSD (or Windows, but hopefully nobody uses that anymore) ;)
Mateusz

[Angel M Alganza]

Hi,

On Mon, Aug 04, 2014 at 12:18:58PM +0200,
Mateusz Viste wrote:

[...]

Only problem is to have a humanly convenient way
to use FTP from within FreeDOS.

How hard (if at all possible) would it be to port
lftp to FreeDOS?

[Christopher Evans]

Depends how many library dependencies it has.
And if it uses Linux/win32 specific calls.

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Post by Angel M Alganza
Hi,
On Mon, Aug 04, 2014 at 12:18:58PM +0200,
[...]

Only problem is to have a humanly convenient way
to use FTP from within FreeDOS.

How hard (if at all possible) would it be to port

[Michael B. Brutman]

Post by Mateusz Viste
* Running a mTCP FTP server on the DOS machine (Matej, Michael, Ulrich)
- this is nice, although I'd prefer keeping the DOS PC as a simple
'client'.

I am confused by this. Both the FTP client and FTP server are DOS EXE
programs. Why would running the FTP server change the nature of your PC?

If you want a minimal solution, a command line FTP client is perfect.
If you don't like command line FTP clients, well, better clients for DOS
really do not exist. You can run the FTP server on DOS instead and run
whatever client you want on your more advanced machines. That's not a
terribly compromise to make to take advantage of a solution that works
*today*.

[Mateusz Viste]

Hi Mike,

Yes, of course it's a totally cool solution. The problem is purely
conceptual - I already have a host that acts as a "server" for many
things, and have configured a local anonymous FTP server on it, so I'd
prefer to use this.

The DOS computer, like all other user-handled computers at home, have a
DHCP address, and doesn't get the same IP all the time (sure, I could
set a static lease for the DOS computer...). Also, when I'm playing with
the DOS machine, I usually prefer not to move around the house from one
PC to another, and just sit behind the DOS machine, having access to
whatever I need.

So no reason to be confused, the "DOS PC as FTP server" is a perfectly
valid (and working) solution, just not fitting exactly in my (very
personal) needs.

The only thing I need to look for now is a user-friendly FTP client I
could use from the DOS PC. Currently I use either curl (if I need to
fetch) or the wattcp FTP client (if I need to push), but since I
discovered the FTP capabilities of the latest NDN (thanks Rugxulo!), I
will definitely try to make it work, as it's *exactly* what I was
looking for. Too bad it craps on me so far, but this must be some
configuration problem - Rugxulo implied it worked for him, so there must
be a way to make it work on my PC, too.

BTW, I also tried the FTP client that comes with mTCP, but it proved to
be hardly useable on my PC. Dunno what's wrong, the symptom is that it
reacts very poorly to keyboard input, at every keypress, I have to wait
like 1s or 2 for the character to appear on the screen. Typing the
"anonymous" login itself is quite frustrating already, not talking about
any further get/put/ls magic.
Any idea why it's behaving this way? (this might be a subject better
suited offlist, if you'd like me to perform any debugging steps, which
I'll be glad to follow, if you think there's a point to look for some
bug there).

cheers,
Mateusz

Post by Michael B. Brutman

Post by Mateusz Viste
* Running a mTCP FTP server on the DOS machine (Matej, Michael, Ulrich)
- this is nice, although I'd prefer keeping the DOS PC as a simple
'client'.

I am confused by this. Both the FTP client and FTP server are DOS EXE
programs. Why would running the FTP server change the nature of your PC?
If you want a minimal solution, a command line FTP client is perfect.
If you don't like command line FTP clients, well, better clients for DOS
really do not exist. You can run the FTP server on DOS instead and run
whatever client you want on your more advanced machines. That's not a
terribly compromise to make to take advantage of a solution that works
*today*.

[Michael B. Brutman]

Post by Mateusz Viste
BTW, I also tried the FTP client that comes with mTCP, but it proved to
be hardly useable on my PC. Dunno what's wrong, the symptom is that it
reacts very poorly to keyboard input, at every keypress, I have to wait
like 1s or 2 for the character to appear on the screen. Typing the
"anonymous" login itself is quite frustrating already, not talking about
any further get/put/ls magic.
Any idea why it's behaving this way? (this might be a subject better
suited offlist, if you'd like me to perform any debugging steps, which
I'll be glad to follow, if you think there's a point to look for some
bug there).

How about sending a bug report? I make it so easy for people to tell me
when something is not quite right, but I never get bug reports ...

It works perfectly on 8088 class machines, which is as slow as you can
get. So to figure out what is wrong in your environment I would like to
know the brand/type of machine, the date on the BIOS, which version of
DOS (FreeDOS I assume), and any TSRs that you have loaded - especially
ones related to power management. One of the DOS power management TSRs
had a bad side effect that resembled what you described.

mTCP generally uses BIOS routines for handling the keyboard. This is
generally very reliable and fast.


Mike

[Mateusz Viste]

Hi Mike,

Post by Michael B. Brutman
How about sending a bug report? I make it so easy for people to tell me
when something is not quite right, but I never get bug reports ...

I have the same problem :)
My guess it's that's purely because of human laziness. It's much easier
and faster to replace a non-working software by another piece of
software (when there is any alternative), than to do tests, and write
bug reports... Plus, you're never sure whether a bug is a bug, or some
local misconfiguration.

Post by Michael B. Brutman
ones related to power management. One of the DOS power management TSRs
had a bad side effect that resembled what you described.

By "one of the DOS power mgmt TSR" I guess you meant Eric's FDAPM (which
is the only FreeDOS-specific power control tool). I do use it since
forever, as it does a really great job at keeping my CPU cool and my
power-meter smiling.

I temporarily disabled FDAPM and re-tested your FTP client. And indeed -
problem is gone! Without FDAPM, the mTCP FTP client reacts very well.
I don't know what the exact problem is, nor where exactly the bug lies
(FDAPM? FTP? A bit on both?), but I don't have such 'sluggish keyboard
feedback' behavior with any other application.
I also tried to re-activate FDAPM using the "adv:reg" parameter (I think
I read somewhere - probably on this mailing list - that it helps
sometimes with similar troubles), but it didn't change anything in this
case. Or maybe it helped a little bit, but nothing significant.

cheers,
Mateusz

[Michael B. Brutman]

Before we claim that mTCP is not compatible with FDAPM, what FDAPM
options are you using?

fdapm apmdos has worked for me before. My notes are in power.txt.


Mike

[Mateusz Viste]

Hi, I use exactly that - fdapm apmdos.

Sorry for the "incompatibility claim" :)
Since you sponteanously mentionned power management issues, I (naively) assumed you already knew about this specific problem. I understand it is not necessarily the case. I will collect some more data then next time I have access to this PC and send you these offlist.

cheers
Mateusz

Post by Michael B. Brutman
Before we claim that mTCP is not compatible with FDAPM, what FDAPM
options are you using?
fdapm apmdos has worked for me before. My notes are in power.txt.
Mike
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Mateusz

[Ulrich]

Post by Mateusz Viste
So no reason to be confused, the "DOS PC as FTP server" is a perfectly
valid (and working) solution, just not fitting exactly in my (very
personal) needs.
The only thing I need to look for now is a user-friendly FTP client I
could use from the DOS PC. Currently I use either curl (if I need to
fetch) or the wattcp FTP client (if I need to push), but since I
discovered the FTP capabilities of the latest NDN (thanks Rugxulo!), I
will definitely try to make it work, as it's *exactly* what I was
looking for. Too bad it craps on me so far, but this must be some
configuration problem - Rugxulo implied it worked for him, so there must
be a way to make it work on my PC, too.

Does the FTP of NDN really work with plain FreeDOS?

After reading the discussion here

http://www.bttr-software.de/forum/mix_entry.php?id=3628

I have the impression it only works under Win32. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Running Far Manager under plain FreeDOS would be VERY interesting - but I wasn't able to get it up quickly. A tutorial or a short HOWTO would be great, if anyone can reproduce the steps mentioned in the link above.

The only graphical FTP client for DOS I have working is Minuet (shareware, v18).

http://www.fdisk.com/doslynx/minuet/

Just enter the server address in form of "ftp-server.somedomain.com" and your credentials and you get a horizontal two-pane window.

Sounds better than it actually is. At the moment I prefer starting up mTCP ftpsrv and use a GUI client on the OS that actually has a GUI.

kind regards
Uli

[Mateusz Viste]

Post by Ulrich
Does the FTP of NDN really work with plain FreeDOS?
After reading the discussion here
http://www.bttr-software.de/forum/mix_entry.php?id=3628
I have the impression it only works under Win32. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I'm sorry to tell you that you are wrong :)

Although I couldn't (yet) get it working reliably on my PC, I was able
to connect to my FTP server one time, and list its content, which is
enough to say that the DOS version of NDN is functional. For me it
failed to connect most of the time though, but I believe it's because of
some stuff specific to my environment (and I had no time yet to
investigate in details).

Mateusz

[Ulrich]

Post by Mateusz Viste

Post by Ulrich
Does the FTP of NDN really work with plain FreeDOS?
After reading the discussion here
http://www.bttr-software.de/forum/mix_entry.php?id=3628
I have the impression it only works under Win32. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I'm sorry to tell you that you are wrong :)
Although I couldn't (yet) get it working reliably on my PC, I was able
to connect to my FTP server one time, and list its content,

Thanks for the correction. For me it showed

Connection Error
Socket error 10051
"Error code #10051"

each time I tried to connect to a FTP server.

So I give it another try too.

Thanks a lot! :-)

[Ulrich]

Okay.
I got Necromancer's Dos Navigator and its integrated graphical FTP Browser to work - at least for the LAN.
(With a connection to two external FTP sites I still get Connection Error 10051)

To try this I run two VirtualBox FreeDOS guests.

Guest No. 1:
----------------

I used a plain FreeDOS 1.1 and booted Menu 1 (Jemmex, no EMS)
I loaded the VirtualBox packet driver in AUTOEXEC.BAT

LH PCNTPK INT=0x60

I downloaded NDN from http://ndn.muxe.com/download/
Version: 2010-03-23 - v2.31.5309
and copied it to C:\NDN

I added C:\NDN to my PATH in AUTOEXEC.BAT (don't know exactly if this is necessary)

I added a line to C:\NDN\FTP.INI

mtcp [2,0,0,0] ftp://user:***@192.168.1.120

I configured a minimal C:\FDOS\WATTCP.CFG

my_IP = dhcp
gateway = 192.168.1.1

(The line

SET WATTCP.CFG=C:\FDOS

has to be in AUTOEXEC.BAT)



Guest No. 2
----------------

I made sure it has the IP address 192.168.1.120
I started mTCP ftpsrv


----------------------------
That's it.
In Guest No. 1 I start NDN.
Then I hit F10 to get into the menu bar.
I choose "Manager" and "Change drive left" (or just hit ALT-F1)
I choose "#: FTP-Server"
I go down the menu until the line "mtcp" is highlighted and then I hit ENTER.

Now NDN connects to mTCP ftpsrv.

:-)

Post by Ulrich

Post by Mateusz Viste

Post by Ulrich
Does the FTP of NDN really work with plain FreeDOS?
After reading the discussion here
http://www.bttr-software.de/forum/mix_entry.php?id=3628
I have the impression it only works under Win32. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I'm sorry to tell you that you are wrong :)
Although I couldn't (yet) get it working reliably on my PC, I was able
to connect to my FTP server one time, and list its content,

Thanks for the correction. For me it showed
Connection Error
Socket error 10051
"Error code #10051"
each time I tried to connect to a FTP server.
So I give it another try too.
Thanks a lot! :-)
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[Ulrich]

Just a small update:

I am not really confident to get NDN FTP working with external sites.

If I configure a nameserver in WATTCP.CFG I get Connection Error 10060 instead of 10051. Name resolving is working, but the client fails to make a connection. This seems to be a local problem. I tried this by exposing the local mTCP ftpsrv to the internet. The connection to the same machine in the LAN did work - but over the internet it failed. There wasn't no connection, no handshake, nothing.

So at least it worked locally. But it crashed a few times. So at the moment it wouldn't be my favorite way to transfer files to my FreeDOS machine.

If anyone had it running once, please send me a note.
:-)

Post by Ulrich
Okay.
I got Necromancer's Dos Navigator and its integrated graphical FTP Browser to work - at least for the LAN.
(With a connection to two external FTP sites I still get Connection Error 10051)
To try this I run two VirtualBox FreeDOS guests.
----------------
I used a plain FreeDOS 1.1 and booted Menu 1 (Jemmex, no EMS)
I loaded the VirtualBox packet driver in AUTOEXEC.BAT
LH PCNTPK INT=0x60
I downloaded NDN from http://ndn.muxe.com/download/
Version: 2010-03-23 - v2.31.5309
and copied it to C:\NDN
I added C:\NDN to my PATH in AUTOEXEC.BAT (don't know exactly if this is necessary)
I added a line to C:\NDN\FTP.INI
I configured a minimal C:\FDOS\WATTCP.CFG
my_IP = dhcp
gateway = 192.168.1.1
(The line
SET WATTCP.CFG=C:\FDOS
has to be in AUTOEXEC.BAT)
Guest No. 2
----------------
I made sure it has the IP address 192.168.1.120
I started mTCP ftpsrv
----------------------------
That's it.
In Guest No. 1 I start NDN.
Then I hit F10 to get into the menu bar.
I choose "Manager" and "Change drive left" (or just hit ALT-F1)
I choose "#: FTP-Server"
I go down the menu until the line "mtcp" is highlighted and then I hit ENTER.
Now NDN connects to mTCP ftpsrv.
:-)

[Mateusz Viste]

Ha, it sounds like what I was getting last weekend - "socket error
10060". But I had this even while running against my local FTP server
with ProFTPD on the other end. And one time by some miracle it did
connect correctly and listed all files on my FTP server (but crashed
seconds later). I haven't done much tests, so I assumed I am missing
some bits of configuration, somewhere. The TCP/IP stack used by NDN is
somewhat exotic ("Sabretooth"), I never used it before. Looking at the
various changelogs of NDN and Sabretooth I noticed that these guys have
put lots of effort into developing their FTP support, so I believe it
should work, at least within a limited configuration scope... I just
haven't had time to play with it more. Of course it might be also that
NDN's FTP support is plain buggy, and we're wasting our time with it,
who knows.

Rugx was mentioning that he got it working fine (I assume it was on
FreeDOS?), maybe he could provide some experience pointers here...

Mateusz

Post by Ulrich
I am not really confident to get NDN FTP working with external sites.
If I configure a nameserver in WATTCP.CFG I get Connection Error 10060 instead of 10051. Name resolving is working, but the client fails to make a connection. This seems to be a local problem. I tried this by exposing the local mTCP ftpsrv to the internet. The connection to the same machine in the LAN did work - but over the internet it failed. There wasn't no connection, no handshake, nothing.
So at least it worked locally. But it crashed a few times. So at the moment it wouldn't be my favorite way to transfer files to my FreeDOS machine.
If anyone had it running once, please send me a note.
:-)

Post by Ulrich
Okay.
I got Necromancer's Dos Navigator and its integrated graphical FTP Browser to work - at least for the LAN.
(With a connection to two external FTP sites I still get Connection Error 10051)
To try this I run two VirtualBox FreeDOS guests.
----------------
I used a plain FreeDOS 1.1 and booted Menu 1 (Jemmex, no EMS)
I loaded the VirtualBox packet driver in AUTOEXEC.BAT
LH PCNTPK INT=0x60
I downloaded NDN from http://ndn.muxe.com/download/
Version: 2010-03-23 - v2.31.5309
and copied it to C:\NDN
I added C:\NDN to my PATH in AUTOEXEC.BAT (don't know exactly if this is necessary)
I added a line to C:\NDN\FTP.INI
I configured a minimal C:\FDOS\WATTCP.CFG
my_IP = dhcp
gateway = 192.168.1.1
(The line
SET WATTCP.CFG=C:\FDOS
has to be in AUTOEXEC.BAT)
Guest No. 2
----------------
I made sure it has the IP address 192.168.1.120
I started mTCP ftpsrv
----------------------------
That's it.
In Guest No. 1 I start NDN.
Then I hit F10 to get into the menu bar.
I choose "Manager" and "Change drive left" (or just hit ALT-F1)
I choose "#: FTP-Server"
I go down the menu until the line "mtcp" is highlighted and then I hit ENTER.
Now NDN connects to mTCP ftpsrv.
:-)

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[Rugxulo]

Hi,

Post by Mateusz Viste
The TCP/IP stack used by NDN is
somewhat exotic ("Sabretooth"), I never used it before. Looking at the
various changelogs of NDN and Sabretooth I noticed that these guys have
put lots of effort into developing their FTP support, so I believe it
should work, at least within a limited configuration scope... I just
haven't had time to play with it more. Of course it might be also that
NDN's FTP support is plain buggy, and we're wasting our time with it,
who knows.

It's probably just buggy and wasn't fully tested. I wouldn't pin any
huge hopes on it.

Post by Mateusz Viste
Rugx was mentioning that he got it working fine (I assume it was on
FreeDOS?), maybe he could provide some experience pointers here...

Unfortunately no. Like I said, I'm terminally useless when it comes to
complicated things, and networking is always complicated.

So your best bet is one of the following:

1). Check the Sabretooth sources.

http://ndn.muxe.com/download/file/stips_1_2_4.rar

2). Ask on BTTR Forum if anyone there has tested (or can further test) it.

http://www.bttr-software.de/forum/

3). Contact Stefan Weber directly.

http://www.bnhof.de/~ho1459/
http://www.bttr-software.de/forum/board_entry.php?id=10488#p10561

[Zbigniew]

Post by Mateusz Viste
Here below I list all methods that have been mentioned, along with a
short comment on each.
* Floppies/CD (Zbigniew, Rugxulo)
- really slow. floppies are hard to get nowadays. Burning a CD every
time I need to transfer a few KiBs of files seems wasteful.

Still you can use ZIP/LS-floppies: 100 MB of place (no need for
burning) means a lot of space for DOS-programs/data.

Post by Mateusz Viste
* Running a FTP server on remote server, and connecting from DOS via a
FTP client (Michael, Rugxulo)
- this is definitely my preferred way so far.

And is it really more convenient to type all these FTP commands - than
just mounting a Samba share, and simply using another drive letter in
VC or DN? ;) Well, it's your taste.

[Mateusz Viste]

Post by Zbigniew
Still you can use ZIP/LS-floppies: 100 MB of place (no need for
burning) means a lot of space for DOS-programs/data.

Yes, the place is not a problem itself, but if/when I need to synch
files a few times a day between my PCes, only networked transfers are an
option, as swapping disks/CDs/flash drives in and out between the two
machines is causing quite a time overhead.
However, ZIP was a really cool thing back in 1996 :) (I even had a ZIP
drive back then! but only one or two diskettes, the price of diskettes
was prohibitive, at least in Poland, and at least for me, at that time)

Post by Zbigniew
And is it really more convenient to type all these FTP commands - than
just mounting a Samba share, and simply using another drive letter in
VC or DN? ;) Well, it's your taste.

Well, it's clearly not :) That's why I am highly interesting now in
making NDN's FTP support working on my PC, since it looks like the
perfect solution.

A samba share is another very valid approach, although IIRC there's not
much 'free' alternatives there, and the only serious driver (from MS)
consumes lots of conventional memory which I'd prefer to keep for other
usages...

Mateusz

[Zbigniew]

Post by Mateusz Viste
A samba share is another very valid approach, although IIRC there's not
much 'free' alternatives there, and the only serious driver (from MS)
consumes lots of conventional memory which I'd prefer to keep for other
usages...

Switching among many startup configurations is something we can't
avoid in DOS. I was pondering one day, whether could be possible to
"reset" DOS without resetting entire machine... it would make such
switch much faster. Just some kind of "full system reload" - similar
way as LOADLIN does it - when switching from DOS to Linux without
reset.

[dmccunney]

Post by Zbigniew
Switching among many startup configurations is something we can't
avoid in DOS. I was pondering one day, whether could be possible to
"reset" DOS without resetting entire machine... it would make such
switch much faster. Just some kind of "full system reload" - similar
way as LOADLIN does it - when switching from DOS to Linux without
reset.

I approximated that years back. I had Unix machine at home before I
got a DOS PC, and spent some time getting the PC set up as much like
Unix as possible.

I found a package called the MKS Toolkit from MKS Systems in Canada.
The Toolkit had DOS versions of all of the standard Unix utilities
that made sense in a single user, single tasking environment like DOS.
What sold me was a complete implementation of the Unix Korn shell.
(It had everything save asynchronous background processes.) Running
in the MKS environment, you had to dig a bit to see you *weren't* on a
UNIX machine. I was able to implement a passable version of the Unix
LP print spooler with the DOS PRINT command and some Korn shell
aliases and functions.

When you ran the Toolkit in fullest Unix compatibility mode,
COMMAND.COM was replaced as the boot shell by the Toolkit's INIT.EXE.
Drivers were loaded in CONFIG.SYS, then INIT. It printed a Login:
prompt on the screen. Login, and the ID was passes to LOGIN, which
looked in a Unix compatible /etc/passwd file. If it found a match,
the PC changed to whatever was specified as that ID's home directory,
and ran whatever was listed as the ID's shell. Exit from that
program, and INIT was reloeaded, waiting for another login.

I loaded my RAMdisk, disk cache, and mouse driver in CONFIG.SYS to be
common to all environments. Userids were set to load the MKS Korn
shell, 4DOS, vanilla COMMAND.COM, and DesqView. I could switch
environments without rebooting - just exit the shell I was using and
log in with a different ID.

When I started using Windows 3.1, the Toolkit stayed in the mix. The
default shell for Win 3.1 was Program Manager, but you could change it
to use something else in Window's SYSTEM.INI file, and a number of
freeware and shareware Program Manager rep[lacements existed. I had
MKS IDs that would copy a custom version of SYSTEM.INI specifying the
desired alternate Win 3.1 shell over the main one, then run Windows.
(Or not run Windows at all, and load one of the CLI environments.)

Post by Zbigniew
Z.

______
Dennis

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

Post by Zbigniew
Switching among many startup configurations is something we can't
avoid in DOS.

I assume you mean CONFIG.SYS menus. The old old days where you needed
to rename / copy separate files in order to multi-boot such setups is
long gone. (Of course, FreeDOS isn't quite MS or DR compatible here,
but who cares?)

Though it's hard to organize such things effectively. It's almost an
art to keep things minimal, isolated, self-contained ... hence it's
actually almost easier to just have separate configs in separate
files. I have three main setups (sets of config files): one for RUFUS
(USB), one for (not quite) "raw", and my main desktop's (menu-based,
which I rarely use) setup. I don't know if it would be wise to merge
them all. Heck, I don't even reliably have them backed up. Maybe we
need a public Git repo or such for popular end user CONFIG + AUTOEXEC
files, for example, to help people when setting things up. I have a
(very) few examples from years ago, but I never use them.

In other words, maybe I'm overthinking it (again), but there's always
room for improvement. Obviously if you don't want to have to reboot a
lot, keep things separate where you can DEVLOAD drivers (only when
needed) or unload TSRs (thus keep all of those at the end, where they
won't clash with others). Like I've mentioned before, I don't use
JEMM386 at all by default, so if I need it, I just "LOAD" it at
runtime (and "UNLOAD" when done), thus saving me the (minor)
compatibility hassle. Also, my last three TSRs can unload, e.g.
CTMOUSE, NNANSI, SHCDX33F ... if I was desperate for more than 600 kb
of conventional memory (unlikely).

Post by Zbigniew
I was pondering one day, whether could be possible to
"reset" DOS without resetting entire machine... it would make such
switch much faster. Just some kind of "full system reload" - similar
way as LOADLIN does it - when switching from DOS to Linux without
reset.

Booting up is already very fast, compared to every other OS. In fact,
I think my (Lenovo) BIOS has some kind of switch that boots up
slightly faster (can't remember, probably just smaller delay to hit
F12 or whatever for General Setup or Select Boot Media).

And here's the real reason I'm replying to this email: JEMM's
"FASTBOOT". It seems this was first implemented back in 2007. See
README.TXT's "Other Tools" (6.2).

"
6.2. JEMFBHLP

JEMFBHLP is a tiny device driver only needed if both FreeDOS and Jemm's
FASTBOOT option are used. FreeDOS v1.0 does not provide the information
that Jemm needs for FASTBOOT to work, so this driver tries to cure FreeDOS'
incapability. It saves the values for interrupt vectors 15h and 19h at
0070h:0100h, which is the MS-DOS compatible way to do it.

I was told that in FreeDOS v1.1 this problem has been fixed.
"

Honestly, I never use this. It wasn't that crucial. I don't know how
well it works, how bug-free it is. I vaguely think I did enable it way
back on my RUFFIDEA disk #3, but again, I don't actively use that
anymore.

If anybody knows whether the helper tool is still needed (in FD 1.1),
feel free to tell us. Yeah yeah, I could reboot and "see what happens"
(crash!), but that doesn't interest me ... much. So no promises, test
it yourself! :-P :-)

N.B. It warns that (in addition to JEMFBHLP) you may have to set
"STACKS=0,0" and not move the XBDA.

[Dale E Sterner]

Not booting from USB but reading FLASH on USB as a drive letter like a
floppy.
I do it all the time. I read the camera flash and play the movies and
look at pictures
on flash. Flash is usually drive E: Unfornunately you can only read one
flash
at a time unless you can run DUSE which only works on a Cypress chip set.


cheers
DS
.

Post by Mateusz Viste
Hi all,
Thank you all for your replies! I was assuming network transfers
only,
as this seems the only proper way, and I've been surprised how many
of
us still use non-networked file transfers methods :)
Here below I list all methods that have been mentioned, along with a
short comment on each.
* Floppies/CD (Zbigniew, Rugxulo)
- really slow. floppies are hard to get nowadays. Burning a CD
every
time I need to transfer a few KiBs of files seems wasteful.
* Double boot - either to copy files from one partition to another,
or
move data using 'modern' means (Matej, Dennis, John)
- rebooting into another OS just to copy some files can be a
pain..
* Booting from USB as a mean of accessing USB flash drives (Matej,
Dale)
- as above, requires a reboot to exchange files. plus, not every
PC
have USB. and these that have it, don't necessarily know how to boot
from it.
* Running a mTCP FTP server on the DOS machine (Matej, Michael,
Ulrich)
- this is nice, although I'd prefer keeping the DOS PC as a
simple
'client'.
* Running a FTP server on remote server, and connecting from DOS via
a
FTP client (Michael, Rugxulo)
- this is definitely my preferred way so far. And it would be
perfect
if there was a nice FTP client for DOS. There are a few CLI FTP
clients
already, but using FTP over CLI is not very convenient. A NC-style
FTP
tool would be awesome. I didn't know about Necromancer DOS
Navigator's
ability to access FTP drives (mostly because I was using an older
version of NDN without this feature) - this looks like the perfect
tool.
Unfortunately it looks like NDN doesn't like my networking
environnement. It's able to connect to my FTP server one time out of
20,
and then the connectivity goes down after few seconds anyway. I will
have to check this out. Not sure how its TCP/IP stack ("SabreTooth")
is
supposed to be configurable..
* Using a CF->IDE adapter (Alain)
- Requires a reboot (or even worse - a halt/change CF/start
operation).
* Using parallel transfers via winlink (Ulrich)
- this sounds nice, but as far as I understand it requires a
Win3.x
OS on the "host" computer. And a parallel interface (which I don't
have
on my laptop).
Finally, the FTP method looks like the fastest/most convenient one.
Setting up a FTP server on a remote host is easy. Only problem is to
have a humanly convenient way to use FTP from within FreeDOS. The
latest
version (2010) of NDN looks very promising, and it's the only DOS
FTP
client known to me that presents a user-friendly interface.
Unfortunately it's either buggy or incompatible with something I
have,
or I don't know how to configure its exotic (FreePascal?) networking
stack. But definitely worth some investigations!
thanks,
Mateusz

Post by Mateusz Viste
Hello,
That's a question to those of you who happen to still keep an

oldish

Post by Mateusz Viste
hardware machine dedicated to DOS tasks...
How do you transfer files between your main computer and your
FreeDOS-powered machine ?
Myself, I haven't found any really creative solution so far, and

rely on

Post by Mateusz Viste
- using the DOS port of SCP (this works both ways, but not very
user-friendly)
- putting files on my gopher server, and fetching them from my

DOS PC

Post by Mateusz Viste
using a gopher client (works only if I need to copy files TO the

DOS

Post by Mateusz Viste
workstation, but not the other way around)
Obviously, both solutions are quite annoying. Best would be to

have some

Post by Mateusz Viste
kind of file manager similar to Norton Commander that would allow
accessing a remote network drive from DOS...
Just wondering how others do.
Back in old days I was using the LapLink application. It was

primarily

Post by Mateusz Viste
targeted to serial/parallel file transfers, but IIRC since v5.00

network

Post by Mateusz Viste
transfers were supported, too. Anyway, it's not really an option
anymore, since it needs a LapLink program running on both sides,

so it

Post by Mateusz Viste
would still be a nice (although non-free) solution for DOS -> DOS
transfers, but not if your 'real' workstation is running Linux or
FreeBSD (or Windows, but hopefully nobody uses that anymore) ;)
Mateusz

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----

Post by Mateusz Viste
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trk

Post by Mateusz Viste
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******************************************************>>>>

[Mateusz Viste]

Hi,

I see - it still looks like some neat BIOS emulation thing, though. Does
it mean that the USB drive must be inserted before booting the PC (even
if not booting from the USB drive itself)?

I guess you're lucky to have some smart BIOS there ;)
Anyway, it's still 'sneakernet-like' technology, which must be tiring
when needing to swap files in/out several times a day..

cheers,
Mateusz

Post by Dale E Sterner
Not booting from USB but reading FLASH on USB as a drive letter like a
floppy.
I do it all the time. I read the camera flash and play the movies and
look at pictures
on flash. Flash is usually drive E: Unfornunately you can only read one
flash
at a time unless you can run DUSE which only works on a Cypress chip set.
cheers
DS
.

Post by Mateusz Viste
Hi all,
Thank you all for your replies! I was assuming network transfers
only,
as this seems the only proper way, and I've been surprised how many
of
us still use non-networked file transfers methods :)
Here below I list all methods that have been mentioned, along with a
short comment on each.
* Floppies/CD (Zbigniew, Rugxulo)
- really slow. floppies are hard to get nowadays. Burning a CD
every
time I need to transfer a few KiBs of files seems wasteful.
* Double boot - either to copy files from one partition to another,
or
move data using 'modern' means (Matej, Dennis, John)
- rebooting into another OS just to copy some files can be a
pain..
* Booting from USB as a mean of accessing USB flash drives (Matej,
Dale)
- as above, requires a reboot to exchange files. plus, not every
PC
have USB. and these that have it, don't necessarily know how to boot
from it.
* Running a mTCP FTP server on the DOS machine (Matej, Michael,
Ulrich)
- this is nice, although I'd prefer keeping the DOS PC as a
simple
'client'.
* Running a FTP server on remote server, and connecting from DOS via
a
FTP client (Michael, Rugxulo)
- this is definitely my preferred way so far. And it would be
perfect
if there was a nice FTP client for DOS. There are a few CLI FTP
clients
already, but using FTP over CLI is not very convenient. A NC-style
FTP
tool would be awesome. I didn't know about Necromancer DOS
Navigator's
ability to access FTP drives (mostly because I was using an older
version of NDN without this feature) - this looks like the perfect
tool.
Unfortunately it looks like NDN doesn't like my networking
environnement. It's able to connect to my FTP server one time out of
20,
and then the connectivity goes down after few seconds anyway. I will
have to check this out. Not sure how its TCP/IP stack ("SabreTooth")
is
supposed to be configurable..
* Using a CF->IDE adapter (Alain)
- Requires a reboot (or even worse - a halt/change CF/start
operation).
* Using parallel transfers via winlink (Ulrich)
- this sounds nice, but as far as I understand it requires a
Win3.x
OS on the "host" computer. And a parallel interface (which I don't
have
on my laptop).
Finally, the FTP method looks like the fastest/most convenient one.
Setting up a FTP server on a remote host is easy. Only problem is to
have a humanly convenient way to use FTP from within FreeDOS. The
latest
version (2010) of NDN looks very promising, and it's the only DOS
FTP
client known to me that presents a user-friendly interface.
Unfortunately it's either buggy or incompatible with something I
have,
or I don't know how to configure its exotic (FreePascal?) networking
stack. But definitely worth some investigations!
thanks,
Mateusz

Post by Mateusz Viste
Hello,
That's a question to those of you who happen to still keep an

oldish

Post by Mateusz Viste
hardware machine dedicated to DOS tasks...
How do you transfer files between your main computer and your
FreeDOS-powered machine ?
Myself, I haven't found any really creative solution so far, and

rely on

Post by Mateusz Viste
- using the DOS port of SCP (this works both ways, but not very
user-friendly)
- putting files on my gopher server, and fetching them from my

DOS PC

Post by Mateusz Viste
using a gopher client (works only if I need to copy files TO the

DOS

Post by Mateusz Viste
workstation, but not the other way around)
Obviously, both solutions are quite annoying. Best would be to

have some

Post by Mateusz Viste
kind of file manager similar to Norton Commander that would allow
accessing a remote network drive from DOS...
Just wondering how others do.
Back in old days I was using the LapLink application. It was

primarily

Post by Mateusz Viste
targeted to serial/parallel file transfers, but IIRC since v5.00

network

Post by Mateusz Viste
transfers were supported, too. Anyway, it's not really an option
anymore, since it needs a LapLink program running on both sides,

so it

Post by Mateusz Viste
would still be a nice (although non-free) solution for DOS -> DOS
transfers, but not if your 'real' workstation is running Linux or
FreeBSD (or Windows, but hopefully nobody uses that anymore) ;)
Mateusz

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----

Post by Mateusz Viste
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Post by Mateusz Viste
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[Thomas Mueller]

Post by Dale E Sterner
Not booting from USB but reading FLASH on USB as a drive letter like a
floppy.
I do it all the time. I read the camera flash and play the movies and
look at pictures
on flash. Flash is usually drive E: Unfornunately you can only read one
flash
at a time unless you can run DUSE which only works on a Cypress chip set.
cheers
DS

My experience with USB sticks in FreeDOS is that the USB stick is treated like a fixed disk: must be in at boot time, and no changing USB sticks.

USB stick does not get a drive letter if file system is other than FAT (16 or 32). I have some USB sticks with Linux (ext2fs) or BSD (ffs aka UFS) file systems.

I was able to boot FreeDOS with Syslinux, but don't know if I can set that up again.

Tom

[Bret Johnson]

... but if/when I need to synch files a few times a day between my
PCes ...

I obviously don't understand your precise situation, but is it possible to change your procedures so that you don't need to sync the PC's multiple times a day? That is, just do the syncing once a day/week when you aren't working on something (e.g., when you turn the computer off/on), or set up one of the PC's as a file server and always work on files from the server so you only have one copy of them, or ...?

I realize that doesn't solve the general problem of figuring out better ways to do file transfers & networking in DOS, but may help in your particular scenario.

[Mateusz Viste]

Hi Bret,

Of course most human problems can be avoided with good organization and
procedures. Most of my "file exchanging" needs could be aggregated into
blocks I could schedule. But I'd prefer to avoid such ultra-organization
during my hobby time :)

Anyway, there's one very specific case that I would be unable to avoid:
testing my own software. I'm developing on a non-FreeDOS OS (Linux +
DOSemu), because it's much more comfortable than anything under DOS. But
during testing, I always run my software under a real FreeDOS PC. And
testing always means 'plenty of incremental micro-fixes'... and there
appears the need of simple & fast file moving across two computers (but
that's definitely not the only situation it comes handy to transfer
files in/out of DOS PC).

But now that I (re)discovered Necromancer's DOS Navigator, I believe all
my problems are gone.

cheers,
Mateusz

Post by Bret Johnson

... but if/when I need to synch files a few times a day between my
PCes ...

I obviously don't understand your precise situation, but is it possible to change your procedures so that you don't need to sync the PC's multiple times a day? That is, just do the syncing once a day/week when you aren't working on something (e.g., when you turn the computer off/on), or set up one of the PC's as a file server and always work on files from the server so you only have one copy of them, or ...?
I realize that doesn't solve the general problem of figuring out better ways to do file transfers & networking in DOS, but may help in your particular scenario.
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[Dale E Sterner]

Enable usb in the bios then load Hamamatsu drivers into your config.sys.
Its a driver found on the web. Works very well. Everyone uses it for DOS.
It only works for flash memory and usb floppies.
If you have RS232 available then you can use xtalk to move file between
computers.
The DOS

Post by Mateusz Viste
Hi,
I see - it still looks like some neat BIOS emulation thing, though.
Does
it mean that the USB drive must be inserted before booting the PC
(even
if not booting from the USB drive itself)?
I guess you're lucky to have some smart BIOS there ;)
Anyway, it's still 'sneakernet-like' technology, which must be
tiring
when needing to swap files in/out several times a day..
cheers,
Mateusz

Post by Dale E Sterner
Not booting from USB but reading FLASH on USB as a drive letter

like a

Post by Dale E Sterner
floppy.
I do it all the time. I read the camera flash and play the movies

and

Post by Dale E Sterner
look at pictures
on flash. Flash is usually drive E: Unfornunately you can only

read one

Post by Dale E Sterner
flash
at a time unless you can run DUSE which only works on a Cypress

chip set.

Post by Dale E Sterner
cheers
DS
.
On Mon, 04 Aug 2014 12:18:58 +0200 Mateusz Viste

Post by Mateusz Viste
Hi all,
Thank you all for your replies! I was assuming network transfers
only,
as this seems the only proper way, and I've been surprised how

many

Post by Dale E Sterner

Post by Mateusz Viste
of
us still use non-networked file transfers methods :)
Here below I list all methods that have been mentioned, along

with a

Post by Dale E Sterner

Post by Mateusz Viste
short comment on each.
* Floppies/CD (Zbigniew, Rugxulo)
- really slow. floppies are hard to get nowadays. Burning a

CD

Post by Dale E Sterner

Post by Mateusz Viste
every
time I need to transfer a few KiBs of files seems wasteful.
* Double boot - either to copy files from one partition to

another,

Post by Dale E Sterner

Post by Mateusz Viste
or
move data using 'modern' means (Matej, Dennis, John)
- rebooting into another OS just to copy some files can be a
pain..
* Booting from USB as a mean of accessing USB flash drives

(Matej,

Post by Dale E Sterner

Post by Mateusz Viste
Dale)
- as above, requires a reboot to exchange files. plus, not

every

Post by Dale E Sterner

Post by Mateusz Viste
PC
have USB. and these that have it, don't necessarily know how to

boot

Post by Dale E Sterner

Post by Mateusz Viste
from it.
* Running a mTCP FTP server on the DOS machine (Matej, Michael,
Ulrich)
- this is nice, although I'd prefer keeping the DOS PC as a
simple
'client'.
* Running a FTP server on remote server, and connecting from DOS

via

Post by Dale E Sterner

Post by Mateusz Viste
a
FTP client (Michael, Rugxulo)
- this is definitely my preferred way so far. And it would be
perfect
if there was a nice FTP client for DOS. There are a few CLI FTP
clients
already, but using FTP over CLI is not very convenient. A

NC-style

Post by Dale E Sterner

Post by Mateusz Viste
FTP
tool would be awesome. I didn't know about Necromancer DOS
Navigator's
ability to access FTP drives (mostly because I was using an older
version of NDN without this feature) - this looks like the

perfect

Post by Dale E Sterner

Post by Mateusz Viste
tool.
Unfortunately it looks like NDN doesn't like my networking
environnement. It's able to connect to my FTP server one time out

of

Post by Dale E Sterner

Post by Mateusz Viste
20,
and then the connectivity goes down after few seconds anyway. I

will

Post by Dale E Sterner

Post by Mateusz Viste
have to check this out. Not sure how its TCP/IP stack

("SabreTooth")

Post by Dale E Sterner

Post by Mateusz Viste
is
supposed to be configurable..
* Using a CF->IDE adapter (Alain)
- Requires a reboot (or even worse - a halt/change CF/start
operation).
* Using parallel transfers via winlink (Ulrich)
- this sounds nice, but as far as I understand it requires a
Win3.x
OS on the "host" computer. And a parallel interface (which I

don't

Post by Dale E Sterner

Post by Mateusz Viste
have
on my laptop).
Finally, the FTP method looks like the fastest/most convenient

one.

Post by Dale E Sterner

Post by Mateusz Viste
Setting up a FTP server on a remote host is easy. Only problem is

to

Post by Dale E Sterner

Post by Mateusz Viste
have a humanly convenient way to use FTP from within FreeDOS. The
latest
version (2010) of NDN looks very promising, and it's the only DOS
FTP
client known to me that presents a user-friendly interface.
Unfortunately it's either buggy or incompatible with something I
have,
or I don't know how to configure its exotic (FreePascal?)

networking

Post by Dale E Sterner

Post by Mateusz Viste
stack. But definitely worth some investigations!
thanks,
Mateusz

Post by Mateusz Viste
Hello,
That's a question to those of you who happen to still keep an

oldish

Post by Mateusz Viste
hardware machine dedicated to DOS tasks...
How do you transfer files between your main computer and your
FreeDOS-powered machine ?
Myself, I haven't found any really creative solution so far, and

rely on

Post by Mateusz Viste
- using the DOS port of SCP (this works both ways, but not

very

Post by Dale E Sterner

Post by Mateusz Viste

Post by Mateusz Viste
user-friendly)
- putting files on my gopher server, and fetching them from

my

Post by Dale E Sterner

Post by Mateusz Viste
DOS PC

Post by Mateusz Viste
using a gopher client (works only if I need to copy files TO the

DOS

Post by Mateusz Viste
workstation, but not the other way around)
Obviously, both solutions are quite annoying. Best would be to

have some

Post by Mateusz Viste
kind of file manager similar to Norton Commander that would

allow

Post by Dale E Sterner

Post by Mateusz Viste

Post by Mateusz Viste
accessing a remote network drive from DOS...
Just wondering how others do.
Back in old days I was using the LapLink application. It was

primarily

Post by Mateusz Viste
targeted to serial/parallel file transfers, but IIRC since v5.00

network

Post by Mateusz Viste
transfers were supported, too. Anyway, it's not really an option
anymore, since it needs a LapLink program running on both sides,

so it

Post by Mateusz Viste
would still be a nice (although non-free) solution for DOS ->

DOS

Post by Dale E Sterner

Post by Mateusz Viste

Post by Mateusz Viste
transfers, but not if your 'real' workstation is running Linux

or

Post by Dale E Sterner

Post by Mateusz Viste

Post by Mateusz Viste
FreeBSD (or Windows, but hopefully nobody uses that anymore) ;)
Mateusz

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by Mateusz Viste

Post by Dale E Sterner
-----

Post by Mateusz Viste
Infragistics Professional
Build stunning WinForms apps today!
Reboot your WinForms applications with our WinForms controls.
Build a bridge from your legacy apps to the future.

http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=153845071&iu=/4140/ostg.clk

Post by Mateusz Viste

Post by Dale E Sterner
trk

Post by Mateusz Viste
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https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
____________________________________________________________
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2014 - If you drive 50 mi/day or less you better read this...

http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3165/53df7f62b4fb47f621249mp06duc

Post by Dale E Sterner
******************************************************>>>>

[Bret Johnson]

Post by Thomas Mueller
My experience with USB sticks in FreeDOS is that the USB stick is
treated like a fixed disk: must be in at boot time, and no changing USB
sticks.

That depends on which drivers you're using. The BIOS, and most DOS USB drivers, do indeed work that way. My drivers treat flash drives as a removable hard drive (quasi-plug-and-play) rather than a fixed hard drive, so you can plug and unplug whenever you want to.

My drivers currently have other issues, such as slow speed and support for only USB v1 host controllers manufactured by Intel and Via, but that will eventually get fixed. You can download the drivers from http://bretjohnson.us and try them out.

[Thomas Mueller]

Post by Thomas Mueller
My experience with USB sticks in FreeDOS is that the USB stick is treated like a fixed disk: must be in at boot time, and no changing USB sticks.
That depends on which drivers you're using. The BIOS, and most DOS USB drivers, do indeed work that way. My drivers treat flash drives as a removable hard drive (quasi-plug-and-play) rather than a fixed hard drive, so you can plug and unplug whenever you want to.
My drivers currently have other issues, such as slow speed and support for only USB v1 host controllers manufactured by Intel and Via, but that will eventually get fixed. You can download the drivers from http://bretjohnson.us and try them out.

My USB host controllers are now USB 2.0 and 3.0, not sure of brand or backward compatibility with USB v1.

First concern is making FreeDOS bootable, preferably with Syslinux. SYS.COM didn't work, even made the FAT32 file system unreadable. I need to save the first MB by dd from FreeBSD so as to be able to dd back in case the file system is messed up.

Tom

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

Post by Thomas Mueller
First concern is making FreeDOS bootable, preferably with Syslinux. SYS.COM didn't work,
even made the FAT32 file system unreadable. I need to save the first MB by dd from FreeBSD
so as to be able to dd back in case the file system is messed up.

This may not be the most useful reply. I wish it was easier for things
like this as well, but it's not.

Anyways, the only two (easy) ways I know of are RUFUS and UNetBootIn.
The former requires Windows, and the latter ... dunno, Linux is a
given, not sure about FreeBSD. Have you tried (or can you try) both of
these two??

Of course, you could always convert a floppy .img to minimal .ISO and
burn that to CD, if in a pinch, though I'm not sure that has what you
want to run (too small, presumably, unless you only want to do small
tests).

[Thomas Mueller]

Post by Thomas Mueller
First concern is making FreeDOS bootable, preferably with Syslinux. SYS.COM didn't work,
even made the FAT32 file system unreadable. I need to save the first MB by dd from FreeBSD
so as to be able to dd back in case the file system is messed up.
This may not be the most useful reply. I wish it was easier for things
like this as well, but it's not.
Anyways, the only two (easy) ways I know of are RUFUS and UNetBootIn.
The former requires Windows, and the latter ... dunno, Linux is a
given, not sure about FreeBSD. Have you tried (or can you try) both of
these two??
Of course, you could always convert a floppy .img to minimal .ISO and
burn that to CD, if in a pinch, though I'm not sure that has what you
want to run (too small, presumably, unless you only want to do small
tests).

I never used RUFUS or UNetBootIn, don't know if I could.

But FreeDOS 1.1 is already installed on the USB stick but not directly bootable.

I can boot FreeDOS 1.1 from grub4dos but not from grub 2.

I can boot grub4dos and some other things I added from modified System Rescue CD USB-stick installation.

I also have old Linux Slackware 13.0, FreeBSD 8.2 and NetBSD 5.1_STABLE, and Lilo, on a 40 GB IDE hard drive now in a Sabrent enclosure with IDE and SATA internal interfaces and USB 2.0 and eSATA external interfaces.

Lilo menu also includes Plop and grub4dos, and grub 2 floppy image, which is > 7 MB, can be booted from grub4dos.

I was never able to install FreeDOS 1.1 from DOSBox.

Since not many computers nowadays use FreeDOS or any other DOS as their only or primary OS, I'd like to be able to install FreeDOS from Linux or BSD. Maybe even MS-Windows or Mac OS X, though that would not be applicable in my case.

Tom

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

Post by Thomas Mueller
I never used RUFUS or UNetBootIn, don't know if I could.

Do you have a modern Windows, e.g. XP? And I just blindly assume
UNetBootIn could work atop (your) Slackware 13.

Post by Thomas Mueller
I was never able to install FreeDOS 1.1 from DOSBox.

Not sure how that would potentially work.

Post by Thomas Mueller
Since not many computers nowadays use FreeDOS or any other DOS as their only or primary OS,
I'd like to be able to install FreeDOS from Linux or BSD. Maybe even MS-Windows or Mac OS X,
though that would not be applicable in my case.

Here's the problem: what exactly are you trying to install, to where,
from what? I assume you mean somehow create and use a raw (bootable,
active) FAT32 partition on a physical hard drive (or similar media)
from full FD 1.1?

For Linux, you could "maybe" use Eric Auer's old Perl script to "help"
(untested by me, dunno the details):

http://ericauer.cosmodata.virtuaserver.com.br/soft/specials/sys-freedos-linux.zip

But what about emulators? Maybe just use DOSEMU as "good enough".

FreeBSD? Dunno what would work best there. VirtualBox (mostly) works
there, supposedly, and similar stuff (Bochs, doscmd). I haven't really
tested any of that either. Dunno about (ancient) DOSEMU that might've
partially worked there at one time.

It's probably safe to assume that booting a CD-R with fd11.iso and
installing from atop DOS itself is the preferred way to install on
native hardware, assuming you have a working CD drive, of course.

In short: it mostly depends on what (host or target) installation
media you need.

[Marcos Favero Florence de Barros]

Hi,

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

Post by Mateusz Viste
How do you transfer files between your main computer and your
FreeDOS-powered machine ?

FYI ....

Recently I did make an extremely minimal bootable 1.44 MB floppy .img.
(.ZIP'd it is less than 400 kb.) It has almost nothing on it, by
design, except just enough to enable simple networking (packet driver
+ mTCP's DHCP + FTP). The point was that you would grab (via network)
whatever pieces you need.

For lack of a better name, I called it "MetaDOS", thus it's meant to
build your own floppy (or even indirectly create a hard disk image:
fdisk, format, sys), esp. for use with certain emulators, tested
successfully (Win7 64-bit) with VirtualBox 4.3.x and (admittedly old)
QEMU 0.9.0 and 0.13.0.

Maybe this was "too obvious" or "yet another niche". The point was
that there's very few files (approx. 25), so very little to constantly
update, thus not too much of a burden to chase down and mirror full
sources, etc.

Oh, BTW, I made a small VISIT.BAT that will anonymously connect to
popular FTP (mirror) sites, e.g. simtel, garbo, x2ftp, sac.sk, djgpp,
ibiblio. Lots of good stuff there.

I don't think a full (FreeDOS) "BASE" will fit on a single floppy. But
I also don't think it's obvious what most people want or need either.
We do probably still need a public and reliable floppy .img for
FreeDOS. (For pete's sake, QEMU still links to ODIN 2005. And Jim Hall
recently removed all of the "unofficial" floppy images from iBiblio,
ugh.)

Does literally anybody have any interest in this? Obviously the
diehards will roll their own (if haven't already a dozen times over).
Jim Michaels? Felix Miata?

(I have no idea if a QEMU host binary exists for OS/2. It seems that
BOCHS is supposed to work, but I don't actively know what [if any]
packet driver would work there. For now, there are only three packet
drivers included, and the last is untested. I just blindly assume it
could work under VMware as well. Testing every emulator under the sun
is infeasible. But obviously the more the merrier.)

P.S. I'm also vaguely aware that MTools will allow you to insert files
into a disk .img directly, hence no huge need for an emulator, if all
you need is to add stuff. Not sure of equivalent DOS-hosted tools, the
few I tried in the past were somewhat incomplete or buggy, but some do
exist. Further testing or comments on that are also welcome.

[sparky4]

I use ftpsrv from mTCP
and this command on the linux machine

curlftpfs <username>:<password>@<machine ip>/DRIVE_C ~/<machine name>/c


^^



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